Author Topic: Religion  (Read 6598 times)

Offline Anndgrim

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Re: Religion
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2013, 06:47:58 am »
Evolution is not just an explanation as to how things became the way they are.
It's an undeniable logical process.

Denying evolution is either denying the heredity of traits (genetics) or the idea that some traits are unfavorable to survival and reproduction.

When, ignorant people say that everything evolve very fast before and now we haven't seen any form of evolution in millenias (basically ignoring the fact that billions of years have passed since the apparition of life), I like to use the example of African elephants.

Many african elephants used to have enormous tusks but in the space of the last few centuries large tusked elephants have been so intensively hunted for their ivory that they nearly disappeared from the population, and so have their genes.
So people will say "But that's not evolution, they just got killed.", to what the obvious answer is "And how do you think evolution works? DUMBASS!".
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Offline thas

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Re: Religion
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2013, 03:52:12 pm »
A good point you make there, though I wasn't really suggesting otherwise to begin with. Anyway, the thought that we aren't actually able to witness evolution in our lifetime is untrue. Especially when it comes to microevolution.

My favourite example for explaining evolution is the giraffe. Only the ones that were able to reach their food were able to survive. Hence the long necks. I'm oversimplifying it, but the point should be obvious.

Offline Lucifer

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Re: Religion
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2013, 06:30:09 pm »
Heh I feel kinda bad for abandoning the topic but I've felt pretty lazy to read and reply to all (which is a habit when I discuss philosophy, I make a point to reply to every single thing, while others often repeat themselves over and over and ignore points.) Maybe you guys should start a seperate thread for evolution vs creationism, but yeah... To me, evolution is just so obvious. We evolve every day, learning from mistakes, adapting to surroundings, it is exactly what evolution is. Our thoughts evolve as we get older (or more often, devolve for many.. (sheep)) and really could go on an entire essay of the many evolutions happening each day.

Understanding human nature and instincts makes it  even more blindingly clear about evolution.

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Offline Dark

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Re: Religion
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2013, 05:57:35 am »
Heh I feel kinda bad for abandoning the topic but I've felt pretty lazy to read and reply to all (which is a habit when I discuss philosophy, I make a point to reply to every single thing, while others often repeat themselves over and over and ignore points.) Maybe you guys should start a seperate thread for evolution vs creationism, but yeah... To me, evolution is just so obvious. We evolve every day, learning from mistakes, adapting to surroundings, it is exactly what evolution is. Our thoughts evolve as we get older (or more often, devolve for many.. (sheep)) and really could go on an entire essay of the many evolutions happening each day.

Understanding human nature and instincts makes it  even more blindingly clear about evolution.

I just want to clarify that religion isn't philosophy. Philosophy is a love of knowledge and discourse while religion is superstition mired in sophistry and hubris. They're worlds apart.

Offline Lucifer

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Re: Religion
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2013, 04:22:55 pm »
Heh I feel kinda bad for abandoning the topic but I've felt pretty lazy to read and reply to all (which is a habit when I discuss philosophy, I make a point to reply to every single thing, while others often repeat themselves over and over and ignore points.) Maybe you guys should start a seperate thread for evolution vs creationism, but yeah... To me, evolution is just so obvious. We evolve every day, learning from mistakes, adapting to surroundings, it is exactly what evolution is. Our thoughts evolve as we get older (or more often, devolve for many.. (sheep)) and really could go on an entire essay of the many evolutions happening each day.

Understanding human nature and instincts makes it  even more blindingly clear about evolution.

I just want to clarify that religion isn't philosophy. Philosophy is a love of knowledge and discourse while religion is superstition mired in sophistry and hubris. They're worlds apart.
You seem to misunderstand what philosophy is. Philosophy is the pursuit of wisdom, to UNDERSTAND the existence around us. It is the study of everything. Religion included. Philosophy isn't a religion, it isn't something you live your life by in the sense of religion is what I mean. People often use philosophy to describe their set of ideas and beliefs as well. It's a complicated word with no precise meaning. But at its very core, it is understanding.

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Offline Dark

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Re: Religion
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2013, 05:50:29 pm »
Heh I feel kinda bad for abandoning the topic but I've felt pretty lazy to read and reply to all (which is a habit when I discuss philosophy, I make a point to reply to every single thing, while others often repeat themselves over and over and ignore points.) Maybe you guys should start a seperate thread for evolution vs creationism, but yeah... To me, evolution is just so obvious. We evolve every day, learning from mistakes, adapting to surroundings, it is exactly what evolution is. Our thoughts evolve as we get older (or more often, devolve for many.. (sheep)) and really could go on an entire essay of the many evolutions happening each day.

Understanding human nature and instincts makes it  even more blindingly clear about evolution.


I just want to clarify that religion isn't philosophy. Philosophy is a love of knowledge and discourse while religion is superstition mired in sophistry and hubris. They're worlds apart.
You seem to misunderstand what philosophy is. Philosophy is the pursuit of wisdom, to UNDERSTAND the existence around us. It is the study of everything. Religion included. Philosophy isn't a religion, it isn't something you live your life by in the sense of religion is what I mean. People often use philosophy to describe their set of ideas and beliefs as well. It's a complicated word with no precise meaning. But at its very core, it is understanding.

I'm not claiming philosophy is a religion, I'm saying religion isn't a philosophy. Philosophy requires that ideas can be challenged and thereby evolved to eventually reach the highest level of truth. Religions will pass on the same ideas unadulterated for centuries. Religions have a predetermined set of rules and beliefs that are to be followed by its practitioners and those who deviate from these beliefs are often regarded as apostates, or people who abandon their faith.

Of course, there are some religions that are more practical, in the sense that the belief structure allows for a great deal of variance in its followers personal outlook on life, but the teachings of the religion do not change because they are already considered to be immutably true.

Offline TommyHales

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Re: Religion
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2013, 09:20:40 am »
Let's say you have a soldier with a gun in his arm, but before he could shoot it, he would need the permission of the soldier/commander above him. But before this commander could give the order, he needs to ask permission of the commander above him, and the commander above him needs to ask the commander above him. See with this we would be stuck in Infinite reverse (i think that's what it's called), it means that there would be no beginning or end, and that gun would never be fired. So it only makes sense that there is something Independent in the sense that it answers to no one, needs no permission, and is the one who gives the absolute order. Something that was never created, Ever-Living.

  You forgot to mention that the creator must also be outside of the universe. Because if the creator was a part of the universe then at the start of the universe that creator would exist and not exist at the same time, and that would not make any sense. Something cannot exist and not exist at the sameā€¦that is illogical


In the Quran there is a surah that  directly refers to this entire concept and it says "Allah ,  [Who is] One, Allah , the Eternal Refuge. He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to Him any equivalent."


Allah is unfathomable. There is only one of Allah. Allah is not created. There is nothing equal to Allah.


So logically one can't describe or imagine Allah as a magical humanoid wizard, There nothing that can be compared to Allah. He is outside of this universe.

i haven't read all of this but i saw that you said something cannot exist and not exist at the same time. if you look at quantum mechanics and you go with the idea of parallel universes everything it lays out then its possible, i believe they found particles that exist in 2 places at the same time, they travel through dimensions there for there are times when a object will no longer exist in our universe but is still in existence. its like Schrodinger cat when its in the box it is both alive and dead


You know, one thing we as Muslims say when we hear of a death is, "To Allah we belong, and to Allah we will return" (this is actually a verse of the Quran btw). So if your ultimate end is to Him, then why would you not change your life for Him? At the end of the day, pleasing Him is the only thing that matters and the only thing that will count, not pleasing others which something you will never be able to do.
im sorry but im going to live my life for me and not for anyone else divine or otherwise we only get one life(even if reincarnation was true and we all do comeback as someone else after we die you wouldn't be the same you that you are right now) if there is a god and he loves us then he would let us be free he wouldn't want us devoting our life's to him i mean if you are a parent you are basically god to your child, you gave them life and raised them but would you have your children build shrines to you and do as you say to the day they die? no you would want them to live a happy life and be free. the biggest lie in religion is free will because you do not have it. because if you had free will then there would be no threat of hell.

to top things off here is just a rundown of what iv seen on this topic and my thoughts.

i do not believe in god, but i do believe in something not because there are facts but to not believe in anything is just a lonely way to live now i may get heat for saying this but i do believe in aliens i also believe in ghosts death isn't the end for us and there is evidence that supports this but ill go with what Albert Einstein said everything in the universe even the universe itself is made out of energy and energy never disappears it just coverts to a different form (im paraphrasing) we are what stars are made off, every element in our bodies are recycled the water we drink is guaranteed to have been ingested before the air we breath today we breathed 20 years ago. everything is energy and it never goes away it just changes form. 

one thing iv always said is that we as a species will never be masters of the universe we will never know anything until the day we are able to combine religion and science. what if science is just a way of proving god is real? what if what we see as facts of science what if science itself is god or what if god is actually a alien that Terra formed earth and gave us knowledge? theirs a book out there called what if god was a astronaut and the idea is that during our early stages as humans we were visited by aliens that gave us knowledge, there are cave paintings thousands of years old that show spaceships. what if we was thought by a master race? i mean look at the progress humanity has had since we came out of the trees?.

and with this i end this statement

« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 10:05:01 am by Kuro Requiem »

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Offline Katakura Rosu

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Re: Religion
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2013, 12:57:28 pm »
I think religion is good for the comfort it brings people. It is bad for the sheer amount of different religions that creates conflict.

People always say religion is bad because it created wars. My answer is always that religion is an excuse to go to war. If no-one was religious then we would simply find another reason to go to war. At the end of the day it is all to do with power, and power corrupts absolute. I know I said before that religion has created conflict and it has, but like I said if we didn't believe then it would be simply something else that created the conflict.

I myself am agnostic. I do not know what to believe, I like the thought of someone out there looking out for me but at the same time I am never going to know this for sure. Science at the end of the day is theory, it makes more sense logically but it still cannot prove that there isn't some greater existence out there.

I do feel a little that all these major religions are a bit like shackles, how religion has become society and if you do not follow their ways then it can get you into trouble. After all these are peoples beliefs and everyone is entitled to their own.


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Offline Anndgrim

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Re: Religion
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2013, 05:40:04 pm »
There's more to religion than the conflicts it created. It is by nature the blind belief in something entirely made up for no reason whatsoever.
The difference between a moderate and a fanatic is merely of degree in that regard.

Sure it is true that it's a seductive idea to think that "something" is out there, but all that means at the end of the day is that humans are predisposed to feel that way, which isn't any support to the theory of it being real.

As for science only being theory, technology is the proof that it works. Now of course, the non-existence of God cannot be proven since there are always gaps for him to fill but it cannot be denied that the claims of nearly all religions have been thoroughly disproved.
However God(s) not being defined at all, or (quite often) simply surviving the disproving of its definition at a given time, it is probable that even if e knew everything that there ever is to know in our universe and beyond, God(s) could still not be proven to exist or not.
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Offline Katakura Rosu

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Re: Religion
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2013, 01:51:12 am »
There's more to religion than the conflicts it created. It is by nature the blind belief in something entirely made up for no reason whatsoever.
The difference between a moderate and a fanatic is merely of degree in that regard.

Sure it is true that it's a seductive idea to think that "something" is out there, but all that means at the end of the day is that humans are predisposed to feel that way, which isn't any support to the theory of it being real.

As for science only being theory, technology is the proof that it works. Now of course, the non-existence of God cannot be proven since there are always gaps for him to fill but it cannot be denied that the claims of nearly all religions have been thoroughly disproved.
However God(s) not being defined at all, or (quite often) simply surviving the disproving of its definition at a given time, it is probable that even if e knew everything that there ever is to know in our universe and beyond, God(s) could still not be proven to exist or not.

I agree with just about everything you have said, though no-one truly knows what is and what isn't. Sure science has proof that it works, but in the sense of religion and our reason for being here, it's all speculation. It's easy to believe science because it makes sense, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's true.

I am very science orientated, but I like to keep an open mind.

My point was that religion is good because it give people something to fight for, to believe in, a reason for being. To me, that is enough. If you feel whole because of your beliefs, that it allows you to feel like you have really lived and you are happy with your life then that is all that matters. So to me the only real negative is conflict with others. I think everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and should never force them upon others. Of course if one persons beliefs lead them to do dangerous acts then of course people are going to fight back but people shouldn't fight because they don't like that another person believes in a different god etc.

You can't say that it was made up for no reason. I mean you can believe it if you like but through reason itself it makes sense. Like I have mentioned before, the idea of God and following religion gives someone purpose and hope. Gives people happiness. That is a good enough reason.

Personally I believe God doesn't need to be proven. Of course I'll never truly believe until I have my own proof but I am happy enough knowing what I know. So long as I have the freedom to live my life the way I want to then that's all that matters to me, I will embrace the thought of God and live by the rules of science.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 01:53:35 am by Katakura Rosu »


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